Talk:Character Tier List
Shorin On what basis is Shorin ranked as a D+ demon? I agree but it seems illogical that Yusuke at D-* could defeat him unless he was at D --> D* level. However, on second thought I think you're correct and Yusuke's energy simply increased to an equal strength level as a result of the brutalized Kuwabara's emotional connection with him prior to his battle with shorin. what do you think ctype? Actually it's a moot point, D+ is correct. I just re-watched and Yusuke does in fact use Spirit Punches when fighting shorin which would be at D+ level or higher. XD! Koenma I think it should be mentioned that Koenma is only so low because he is holding back his energy in his pacifier. I think there also should be levels including Koenma with his pacifier unleashed like Full Strength (A/S), and after ressurrecting Gamemaster (A) When I get to him using the mafukan spell, I'll make a separate listing for that. Btw, I think full stregth is upper S, and resurrections are lower S. Sensui's Alternate Personas Minoru Sensui is most certainly not A class. Indeed, he did admit Yusuke beats in in strength, speed, and endurance. Yusuke at that point as very high in B+ class. But, the reason Yusuke was getting pummled so hard, was because Minoru could predict Yusuke's moves with such accuracy, that it looked 'like he was dodging by just pure speed. Additionally as Minoru stated, Yusuke is too used to one on one fights, and isn't accustomed to having dangerous attacks chasing him, flying all over the place, and smashing him all at once, which is what made it look as if Minoru was stronger, when he in fact just had a better plan. Kazuya, Yusuke himself stated Kazuya was weaker than Minoru, as shown when he wanted Minoru to come back out. Kazuya is more for brutalizing people, and dark, vile acts of cruelty rather than actual fighting. Also, why is Game Master so high on the charts? I admit his power is formidable, but A class? "Indeed, you're probably right. Most sources claimed Minoru as lower A class, so I went along with that. Was too lazy to reedit after reconsideration though, lol. "Yusuke called for Shinobu...but then again, I'll change it. He is stronger than Minoru though. Don't base his fighting capability over the fact that he has a torture gun." "He can't be hurt unless he wants to be, and his gaming skills pretty much make him invincible, unless he's up against an opponent such as Kurama, who played him." @^@ 02:37, May 18, 2011 (UTC)'' Edits to Tier Page Actually, the S class is easier to reach from the A class, than going from C to B class, as shown in the manga, and Yusuke's training with Hokushin. Hiei's training only took five months. And I mean from lower A to mid S; compared to lower C to mid B. Humans are unaware of S classes; only apparitions, etc. Thus, the "most powerful beings in existance" doesn't make sense. Humans at most only revere God or some other deity/ies for that role. Besides, I said omniscient, not omnipotent. Since Yusuke played dirty just to hit a serious Minoru, I'm gonna change him to lower A class. If you don't agree, you can dispute. As for Kazuya, B sounds good. Koenma I'm not registered, but I was seeing the article and the Top tier shocked me a bit. Why Raizen (Prime) is weaker than Koenma with the Ma Fu Kan? The Ma Fu Kan wasn't able to beat Sensui (I know that it wasn't full power because Koenma revived the game master, but still) and it has been said both in the anime and in the manga that Raizen in his prime state was the strongest demon. If someone could show me a screen of the manga, or the name of the anime chapter when it's said that the Ma Fu Kan reaches more energy than Raizen's energy, it would be very nice. Thanks! Sorry if my english fails, I'm a spanish speaker. 03:15, August 18, 2011 (UTC) Guest.' '''It is because the Sacred Energy was in a class of its own. It's not just because Sensui had it , but Yusuke had a variant as well, and he was much stronger.' So, it's really the nature of the energy itself. Raizen doesn't have Sacred Energy, and Koenma said it could trap the strongest of S class demons. It not for the Sacred Energy, Sensui as well. :But because Sensui had Sacred Energy, he overpowered it. Therefore, it should not be at the top if it couldn't beat Sensui. If Yusuke beat a person with Sacred Energy, then he is obviously stronger than the Mafukan 01:13, December 19, 2011 (UTC) :I'm not sure what you're trying to say, sorry. But, in case the person wielding the energy seems like the problem, it isn't. The thing is the nature of the energy itself. It's neither demon, nor spirit, and so, the Mafukan has no super effect on it, compared to the effect it would have on youki and reiki wielders. That doesn't mean Sensui/Yusuke are top-tier though, of course. The energy is only as good as the person wielding it. : 01:50, December 19, 2011 (UTC)LazyCtype : :Wait, then I don't understand why Koenma is at the very top then. If it's only as good as the person wielding it, and it didn't overpower Sensui, then shouldn't he not be at the top? -SaiyanZ :Maybe you should edit it to say only Mafukan. Koenma was its only user, and the only one who stored energy in it- presumably, it's his technique, but that's me guessing. :And like I said, it's not about him being overpowered by Sensui. It's about the Sacred Energy, which the Mafukan doesn't affect, allowing Shinobu Sensui to break the seal. Without that, he wouldn't have a chance. Raizen, nor any other character besides Yusuke had the energy, so the Mafukan would trap them completely. As for Shinobu, he's above the Mafukan, with the Sacred Energy, but when it's not a factor (Sacred Energy), he's just another lower S class. : 01:50, December 19, 2011 (UTC)LazyCtype This is great! So I was looking at this tier list & I thought to myself that this was a good idea. It seems that you guys have the power listings right as far as I can see, but I think we should make the titles or whoever is being addressed more formal. For instance, even though we have Japanese names, I think it is for the best if we convert to the English language since the Viz Media license and FUNimation use the same subtitles. Also, we need to remove epithets (an example of this would be calling Genwaku Kyoushu "Yomi's Assassin'; it's unneccesary to include it on this article).That's just my take on it, & thank you to Ctype for telling me about this :D 08:29, December 16, 2011 (UTC) Kuwabara On this lis it has Kuwabara at a low S class for the manga version of him. In the manga, it is never suggested that he achieved power higher than that of a middle A Class. Unless someone can provide a good reason for him being that strong, i believe it should be removed. (User:Nubescout/sig2 12:54, December 28, 2011 (UTC)) Now I see that scan, but just because Elder Toguro survived, doesn't mean he's up there with 80 percent. Remember his drastic healing abilities. It could be hard for the older to die, anyway, but a sufficient blast could destroy him, still. Say, Genkai's reigan, or something. This doesn't apply to the Younger, of course. Also, Kuwabara did beat him, but, like was said, he pretty much was unaffected by the blow, since he was perfectly normal; wished to take on Yusuke; and admitted that he hid out the attack. All of his "injuries" were feigned, because he's a cheating bastard. Are you sure you know what "base" means? No offense; you probably do. But since Toguro was at 0 percent, when he punished Elder, it should tell you the difference in their power. Even if the Elder didn't die. In short, Elder Toguro's abilities allow him to compete with 80 percent, but anything strong enough to get around them/pierce his heart would reveal all of his flaws. Such as Hiei's Darkness Sword. He's lower than 80 percent Toguro, but, because of his hella fast swordsmanship, he could take care of the Elder, before he could react. Actually, the Darkness Sword might be overdoing it. Also, Near Death Raizen is the same as Beserk, wouldn't you agree? His energy level didn't go down a class level, since he could still fight on par with an upper S class Yusuke. He just...wanted to eat Yusuke, more than kick his ass. I'm not sure how you changed the format, but I messed up pretty bad, when I revised back there. I wish you would wait for my input, before editing. I'll do the same. Fair enough about Elder Toguro, but it was shown in chapter 161 that the Makai power level system count special abilities too, so Elder Toguro would definately be no lower than B-, possibly B-*. Kuwabara's Trial Sword should still be close to him, as Elder Toguro knew that it would be dangerous to him once sensing it's level of reiki, which is why he chose to trick Kuwabara using the duplicate. As for near death Raizen, it was heavily implied that when he went berserk against Yusuke he was weaker than him. In chapter 163, Yusuke stated he was surprised at how much Raizen had weakened and stated Raizen was getting constantly weaker, to the level that Yusuke almost viewed him as pathetic. So he should be above Majari? Ok; that's cool. The energy of that sword was great...but Kuwabara himself had not improved, at all. He was still the same clumsy fool. That's why I didn't improve him. Nothing about him bettered, save for the hilt allowing his energy to be more focused. Good point. Are you sure he should be above Hiei, though? I mean Yusuke ended that fight pretty quickily. Now that i reread the Three Kings Arc, you're right about Hiei>Berserk Raizen. Hiei did state he and Yusuke were about equal when Yusuke had his meeting with Yomi. This would also mean we should increase Hiei to S+ or bring Yusuke (post-Hokushin training) to S* and have Yusuke (Makai tournament) at S+. I'll go with the former for now, unless you agree with the latter. S+? So far there is E,D,C,B,A,S with their respective + and - in that class what about SA or even SS? SA class is the same as S class. Both stand for Super A class. There is no SS class. While some have said Raizen in his "prime" might have been this, the truth is that the upper S class is endless, just like the lower E class is. You can only grow more stronger, within the class. 41Gorenja members Hmm I believe Momorenjya alongside Aorenjya and Akarenya are all C+, why is she only C class, their abilities are almost identical. If it was because Momorenjya was instantly killed by Toguro while the other two survived his initial attack, it's because she was pierced right through the head unlike the other two who were pierced in areas that would not have been fatal. It's been so long, that I almost forgot. But now I remember- her lack of a ranged energy attack XD The characters between her and the rest of her team could either tank her Demon Claw, or put her down, before she could land it. 06:03, August 24, 2012 (UTC)ctype Hmm I see... but since we never actually saw her using the attack (Since Toguro impaled the 3 of them before they could strike him), it means that we don't really know how it works, for all we know it may be used a projectile, and besides, if she could move that quickly, further aided by her afterimages, it's not that anyone could track her movements to land a hit on her before she lands a hit on them anyways (Provided they can't hit in all directions or something like that Toguro). Furthermore, I think it contradicts with what was said in the Team Gorenja page, which stated: "Every member is in the upper C range, other than Midorenjya and Kirenjya." Of course, this is just my point of view, so if it isn't convincing enough then alright :) She didn't use the Demon Claw, but it's most likely a melee attack. Probably from the word "Claw" that gives it away, but we don't know, true. Unless otherwise shown, it's just assumed that she doesn't have a ranged attacked, because she has no showings for one. That depends. Rinku was ranked everywhere as a mid C-class demon, and he had arguably better afterimages than Momorenjya, because they didn't spread out right behind her, and didn't leave an obvious trail, meaning he was much, much faster. Because of that major flaw in her technique, it could only be really effective, when used with other similar techniques (Gorenjya Battalion). It may look as if her clones are spread out, some, but they are really some degree right behind her, every time- not to mention her abuse of the technique, lessening its effectiveness. It says that? Feel free to edit that quote, then, if I don't do it first. 05:50, September 6, 2012 (UTC)ctype Are those after-images just a side-effect of moving really quickly or are really illusionary clones... or maybe both, as seen from the Team Gorenja VS Team Kaido snippet where she just disappeared and reappeared with what appears to be ~8 of her surrounding her opposition. Those after-images/clones were stationary, suggesting that she wasn't encircling her opponent really quickly, and if that were the case then it means 3/5 of Team Gorenja have very high evasion ratings that should allow them to slowly wear down their opponents. "Team Kaido"? 05:50, September 6, 2012 (UTC)ctype Err it was a cameo, in episode 43: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_rK8TxIGc4 At 13:11 onwards you'll know what I mean. Sorry, but it is blocked. Thus this team appear in the manga? 05:50, September 6, 2012 (UTC)ctype You're in a country that blocks YouTube? Oh, they don't appear in the manga unfortunately, they just say that Team Gorenja defeated them with ease. In the anime though, they had a cameo appearance where Momorenjya easily evades all his attacks, and it's pretty certain she and her team won with ease. Though the point is, are those after-images merely a side-effect of moving quickly or are they illusionary clones, because this is debatable. I mean, that sounds like the purest form of filler. But you gave me the episode, and I saw. Those afterimages indicate that she was much, much slower than Rinku. They were all completely stationary. 05:50, September 6, 2012 (UTC)ctype (yes, I'm being lazy with my sig) Delete I think we should delete this page because this list isnt a official list.HazeShot (talk) 06:43, October 13, 2012 (UTC) Well, we spent about a year of hard effort making it, and if you have any suggestions, you can mention them. But to outright delete it, there's no point. Not to mention most of this list is literally true, taken from various web sources. 22:31, October 31, 2012 (UTC)ctype How is most of the list true it says Koto is stronger than Roto and Gouki, though she doesnt even know how to fight. Also could you give me some of the sources. HazeShot (talk) 05:03, November 22, 2012 (UTC) Funny: Neither Roto or Gouki "know how to fight". Especially Roto.? Spirit Class =/= stronger. If you read the entire beginning, instead of skipping straight because you wanted to see the letters, you would have realized what actually went into the list. Spirit Classes involve much much than "A stronger than B," and since I and others spent literally months collaborating on this, I'll leave it up to you to actually read it. And only after you've proven that you've done so, if you have any reasoning as to why you'd want to change something, you can go ahead. Go to the talk pages for most of the sources; other than that, Pojo was used, iirc. I don't remember them all. It's been way too long - why would I have kept my sources in my head?? 20:15, November 22, 2012 (UTC)ctype doesn't the last arc kinda reveal that the class system is completely meaningless? Kokujin in chapter 155 states he's classified as S class by the spirit world in chapter 161 a bunch of energy levels are revealed. Kokujin has 36k overall ...Yomi and Mukuro are both above 1.5 Million. the difference is so absurd it makes the class system quite worthless IMO. the difference in power from Yomi to Kokujin, for instance, is infinitely bigger than that of Kokujin to even a regular human dude on low E class. 08:14, October 18, 2014 (UTC)